Dicussion from the Tango Mailing List Articles: [ Deutsch | English ]   Cybertango: [ Deutsch | English ]     Geography Page: [ Deutsch | English ]

Adjustments Needed For Each New & Different Partner

• Arturo
• Flor de Mina
• Michael McDonald
• Manuel Patino
• Jari Aalto
• Markku Tallgren
• Jim Lane

Date:    Sat, 2 May 1998 13:53:13 EDT
From:    A HGberg
Subject: Adjustments Needed For Each New & Different Partner


Hi List:

Tango without adornments can be done during any place in your tango but
certainly not for the entire duration of your tango.  As each Tango might have
a beginning and middle, a crescendo, and an ending, so do adornments have
their place.  Also eeach person has their own tastes and their choice as to
when or if they should use firuletes.

I know a lady whose earrings cover her ears.  She has room for six pierced
earrings.   Her jewelry  often covers her neck area and goes  as far down her
chest to her cleavage.  Is it my business to request that she not wear so much
decorative jewelry.  There are some ladies who wear a single string of beads
and require nothing more to feel decorated or adorned.  .......Understandably,
she (my bejewelled lady) does many firuletes during the course of our Tango
encounter.  I never try to match her firuletes but simply allow her to shine
as brightly and ornately as she chooses.

If I danced a simple Tango with her using only walks and a few ochos she would
surely tell me to go take classes to remedy my clinically unadorned Tango and
my boring personality which manifests itself on the dance floor..

When you are capable of inserting literally scores of firuletes during your
Tango and you selectively  use only a few that  best fit the music and the
situations on the dance floor I would say that it would be more appropriate to
be selective.

But in the final analysis .....why would you want a car without chrome trim.
Why would you not want Curtains or drapes or both on your windows and
decorative trim or shudders on the outside of your house.  Why would you not
want decorative moulding where ceilings meets walls in your house.  Why would
you not want at least a Rose in your hair.  Shouldn't wedding dresses have
ruffles and lace.  Why not shave your head instead of combing or coiffing your
hair.  Rings on ones fingers seem to decorate.  I love a man's pinky ring with
a nice sapphire in it.  I love the decorations on women's net stockings .
Should wallpaper not be made with floral patterns.  I love little toy soldiers
on wall paper in the little boys bedrooms.  Pink decor is nice in the baby
girl"s room.  When is plain absence of adornments become a sign of austerity
or a lack of appreciation of other peoples' choices.  I love stripes.  I also
love polka dots.  When someone wears only black all the time without
decorations stick them with a pin to see if they are not deceased.  I love
diamonds and I do not know any one named DeBeers.

Do not let any one bullshit you that your Tango should consist of only walks
and a few ochos.  It would be boring to most dancers.  If you like the tune
chopsticks with its monotonus klinking or you are abhorent to the music of
Mozart, like to paint your house and car one boring color and never use
adornments, do not  enjoy floral arrangements or beautiful colorful birds nor
enjoy all the colors of the rainbow's spectrum.........dance somewhere in a
dark room where you can hide the pure boredom of your personality.... and .no
adornments in your Tango. When you dance a Tango with me please bring along
your whole inventory of adornments so I know that your are alive festive and
breathing.

Just one man's opinion.

Sincerely,
Arturo

West Palm Beach, Florida, USA

Date:    Sat, 2 May 1998 11:29:29 -0700
From:    Flor de Mina
Subject: Re: Adjustments Needed For Each New & Different Partner


Arturo wrote:

>When you are capable of inserting literally scores of firuletes
>during your Tango and you selectively use only a few that best
>fit the music and the situations on the dance floor I would say
>that it would be more appropriate to be selective.

>...each person has their own tastes and their choice as to when
>or if they should use firuletes.

or for that matter elaborate figures.

Why bother to dance with someone whose style or approach you do not
find interesting?  I do not find it appropriate to tell a one or two
time partner what style to dance.  Doing so is really quite similar to
offering instruction.  If I accept a dance with someone, he and I can
work it out on the floor, but the regulars in a Tango community seem
to know the preferences and skills of all the dancers of similar
status, and make their choices accordingly, which avoids these phantom
problems of trying to tell one's partner how to dance.

I bet that nearly every woman in the Miami Tango community knows
that when you dance a Tango with Arturo:
>to take please bring along your whole inventory of adornments so
>he knows you are alive festive and breathing.

Abrazos,
Florcita

Date:    Sat, 2 May 1998 17:07:54 -0400
From:    Michael McDonald
Subject: Re: Adjustments Needed For Each New & Different Partner


A HGberg wrote:

> Hi List:
>
> If I danced a simple Tango with her using only walks and a few ochos she would
> surely tell me to go take classes to remedy my clinically unadorned Tango and
> my boring personality which manifests itself on the dance floor..
>

Perhaps we need to recognize that there there are many different styles of tango
in addition the the close/open embrace dichotomy.  There are those who prefer the
simple unadorned elegance of walking with style and the occasionally understated
figure done superbly done.  Then there are those who "push the envelope" of
dancing to see what their limits are(often crashing and burning along the way).
Perhaps they could be called the "Missionary" style and the "Dionysian" style.

Personally, I'm a promiscuous  tanguero who believes that the first duty of a
leader is to make sure that the follower enjoys each dance as much as I do:-)

Date:    Sat, 16 May 1998 00:24:55 -0700
From:    Manuel Patino
Subject: Re: Adjustments Needed For Each New & Different Partner


At 05:07 PM 5/2/98 -0400, Michael McDonald wrote:
>A HGberg wrote:
>
>> Hi List:
>>
>> If I danced a simple Tango with her using only walks and a few ochos she would
>> surely tell me to go take classes to remedy my clinically unadorned Tango and
>> my boring personality which manifests itself on the dance floor..
>>
>
>Perhaps we need to recognize that there there are many different styles of tango
>in addition the the close/open embrace dichotomy.  There are those who prefer the
>simple unadorned elegance of walking with style and the occasionally understated
>figure done superbly done.  Then there are those who "push the envelope" of
>dancing to see what their limits are(often crashing and burning along the way).
>Perhaps they could be called the "Missionary" style and the "Dionysian" style.
>
>Personally, I'm a promiscuous  tanguero who believes that the first duty of a
>leader is to make sure that the follower enjoys each dance as much as I do:-)

Hello Michael:

That's easy for you to say, I've watched how much your partners seem to
enjoy dancing with you! ;-) Please keep your cheerfull attitude and
wholesome approach to the tango. Dionysian or Missionary styles
norwithstanding, the most important thing is to enjoy one's self and give
enjoyment to one's partner.
The distance between dance partners varies not only from partner to partner
but from moment to moment during a dance. Personally, I thoughroughly enjoy
a simple, close, well danced tango as well as one full of figures and
embellishments. Each has its place and time. Troilo and Calo allow
different styles as do Pugliese or Orquesta Tipica. Those are just a few
examples, all of us can name more.
More importantly, the comfort zone for each of us is different with various
partners. Me? I first listen to music, find my music; then find my partner
for that dance. The rest takes care of itself. Now, that's assuming that
the "pista" allows you to dance and someone does not shove, kick or hit you
or your partner.

Happy giros, sacadas (or even ganchos)

Manuel

Date:    Mon, 18 May 1998 14:34:53 +0300
From:    "Jari Aalto+list.tango-l"
Subject: Re: Adjustments Needed For Each New & Different Partner
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

|Sat 98-05-16 Manuel Patino <manuelp@MINDSPRING.COM> list.tango-l
| At 05:07 PM 5/2/98 -0400, Michael McDonald wrote:
| >>
| >> If I danced a simple Tango with her using only walks and a few
| >> ochos she would surely tell me to go take classes to remedy my
| >> clinically unadorned Tango and my boring personality which
| >> manifests itself on the dance floor..
| >
| > Perhaps we need to recognize that there there are many different
| > styles of tango in addition the the close/open embrace dichotomy.
|
| ... the most important thing is to enjoy one's self and give
| enjoyment to one's partner.
| The distance between dance partners varies not only from partner to partner
| but from moment to moment during a dance. Personally, I thoughroughly enjoy
| a simple, close, well danced tango as well as one full of figures and
| embellishments. Each has its place and time.


..."clinically unadorned Tango", Oh my, you have faced a partner who
can't see past his nose :-)

Last weekend I attended suberb class that was held in Helsinki where our
Finnish "Amigos del tango" association was managed to persuade a teacher
from Rome to come here and show some heart of Real Argentine Tango.

Sorry, I don't know the Teacher's name. And it's not important at this
moment.

I have danced Tango from the beginning of last Autum 1997 and I have
background in ballroom dancing (where I still compete). The local
instructor in the City where I live (Tampere) also has a very good
teacher who has a very good, macho, standing posture: He also teaches
figures quite throughly and puts emphasisis on the basics: "turn
first, then step". That was all good and formed the hollow basis for
dancing so that we could go to milonga every now and then (about 1-2 per
week. Currently the orhestra is visiting Portugal Tango festival,
where it was invited to)

I said "hollow", because I really thought I had gotten the grasp of
the tango, but what really turned you to be only a vision of tango.

I knew enough moves, invented many more that the teacher hadn't have
shown and thanks to my parther Heini, she discovered more moves when I
tried new steps where he replied..."Can we do this, how about this, no
your leg is in wrong position...".

But after spending 2 hours with this Rome teacher, it all changed.
We practised:

o   proper ouchos forward and backwad
o   proper walking (That was complete new to our previous teaching)
o   proper posture, where to keep your hands. Very important.
o   proper frame. Equally important.

I was astonished/stunned/impressed with his way of teaching. No moves
was studied, just the basic stpping. And the way he did them was
extraordinary. So intense, so loaded with energy to be released when
the step finished. I was thinking like a bow where you place the
arrow, you bend (begin to step), and release (move weight to the
extended foot).

If you folks know tai-chi, that's exactly what he did. Slow movements,
completelt controlled body with each step.

And that was the moment I realized how the Tango should feel like, the breath
of his moves expressed Real Tango.

I wish my english would be better to express how deeply that single lesson
changed my whole view of dancing.

After the lesson was over, there was a milonga in the evening where
everybody gathered and I had a chance to observer other couple's
dancing while my mind still bubbled with the image of the Real Tango
from the lesson.  And I recognized my old myself from many of the dancers who
danced great moves, spins, ornaments, some of them danced "show tango
-- big moves" and other tried to do as lot as possible everywhere.

But, no-one concentrated on each step. A basic step could be danced
very intensive alone. Especially if the frame was kept towards
partner.  There was no "passion" present, just dancing. And I think
that was what I missed most and what was has been missing from my
dancing too. It required this Rome teacher to show where I must
look for the path to the right direction.

The Truth lies in the slow moves, the intensive moves. The slower you
take, the more control you put on the steps, the more energy you have
managed to pack into them. (fine nyanches, body weight slightly up
when you finish the step, body weight a bit down when you start next
move, this all must happen is slow motion so that the partner can sense
the wanted direction)

The most interesting in his teaching was that the hands played almost
no part in the dance. They were like Frames in an Art picture, and the
essense lied on the picture, not in the frame(hands). I was told many
times that "you use you arrms too much, don't lead your partner with
them, but with your chest and your frame."

I wish some of you have experienced something as magical as I did with
my partner Heini. I heard that this teacher received so much positive
comments that we're trying to arrange a regular instruction lessons
from him. How, that is still a question mark, but definitely worth it.

I should not critisise other teachers, but if some of you know Monica
and Omar Ocampo, who also gave lessons here a while ago, I must say
that they teached tango very differently. I couldn't have learned
the "inner" Tango from anyone else but from this Rome teacher.

I'm going to Sweden Tango festival soon, and I hope I bring something
of the lessons in my heart with me when I face the new teachers there.

jari

Date:    Tue, 19 May 1998 09:04:12 +0300
From:    Markku Tallgren
Subject: Re: Adjustments Needed For Each New & Different Partner


-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Moreno
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Adjustments Needed For Each New & Different Partner


>>Last weekend I attended suberb class that was held in Helsinki where our
>>Finnish "Amigos del tango" association was managed to persuade a teacher
>>from Rome to come here and show some heart of Real Argentine Tango.
>>Sorry, I don't know the Teacher's name. And it's not important at this
>>moment.
>
>I also know that there is a person out there so great in his teaching
>ability "whose name is not important at this moment."
>Tsk, tsk!
>
>Ray
>

I think I can throw some light into this teacher mystery. He was Alejandro
Aquino, and I attended to his class too. He was certainly very thorough. The
greatest emphasis was on the body posture and the hold. Very few steps were
taught.

But when he was asked the ultimate question: "When to cross and when not",
he could not give a satisfactory answer. So, even he is human..

Markku Tallgren

Date:    Wed, 20 May 1998 17:16:55 -0700
From:    Jim Lane
Subject: Re: Adjustments Needed For  Each New  & Different Partner


"Jari Aalto+list.tango-l" <jari.aalto@POBOXES.COM>
>But after spending 2 hours with this Rome teacher, it all changed.
>We practised:
>o   proper ouchos forward and backward
...

Some of the most advanced dance classes I've ever taken were the
ones that started with the most beginning moves of the dance, and
worked on doing them *right*.

>If you folks know tai-chi, that's exactly what he did.

Never heard tango compared to tai-chi before, but it makes a kind
of sense.  Both involve precise movement, but both also have an
important inner feeling.

>I wish my english would be better...

Your English is already better than some native speakers.  Nothing
to worry about, unless you want to avoid showing up us natives. :-)

>The Truth lies in the slow moves, the intensive moves.

Er...yes, but not exclusively.  Sometimes the music calls for fast
movement.  The Truth, such as it is, lies in the music, and in the
dance relationship between partners.  And sometimes the music calls
for you to do slow, intense moves very quickly.

>I couldn't have learned the "inner" Tango from anyone else but from
>this Rome teacher.

There are many teachers in B.A. who would teach the same thing, and a
few in the U.S.  Perhaps there are others in Europe.

>I have danced Tango from the beginning of last Autum 1997...

You've been dancing tango for 8 months or so, and already have an
idea of what the dance feels like?  Argentines sometimes claim to
be born knowing that feeling, but it usually takes the rest of the
world longer than that.  Sounds like you're learning pretty fast.

Jim

Garrit Fleischmann May.98
Email: kontakt(at)cyber-tango.com